Faith versus Facts

What does faith have to do with evidence?

As soon as you have evidence the view you hold is no longer based on a belief.

If you understand the nature of belief or faith, that is, that you are able to believe without evidence, then I do not understand why you would be insulted when someone else labels it as fiction. The failing is in the person feeling insulted, not in the doubter. The most you could say is that the latter is tact deficient. The least you could say about the former is that their faith is weak.

To clarify my point:

Faith entails an individual's belief without proof. Others who do not share the same faith are bound not to see eye to eye with the faithful. It is inevitable. This is the reason why in an open society there needs to be freedom of faith/belief.

Faith is a term which is often misused.

When proof comes into it, such as with the knowledge of the earth being round. Faith no longer comes into it. We typically call this a fact. Fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence: that is information gained by means of observation, experience, or experiment.

Fact is also a term which is often misused.

I could say the earth is flat (as was done in the past, and still is, apparently,) but experimentation would prove that this is not the case. Thus I can say for a fact that the earth is not flat.

Contrariwise, I could believe or have faith that the earth is flat, even if evidence points to the contrary.

On the one hand Science cannot possibly explain the whole of the Human experience. On the other hand we have Faith (we also have stuff like Film, Literature, Poetry, Art, Humor, Myth, etc.) These are things that science cannot measure or dissect, but still have bearing on the Human experience.

It does not good to try and mix and match, much like asking someone to prove their faith (or, equally, trying to disprove someone's faith,) but only when Science and the Humanities come together do we have the whole (or an approximation) of the Human experience.

Although Religion openly uses Fiction, as in Parables (or even other things, but I don't want/need to get into that,) to teach important lessons, Religion and Fiction are not the same thing.

Someone who equates them is making a mistake.

As an example I'd like to cite Joseph Campbell trying to explain the meaning of Myth on a TV program, and the host of the program can only respond: "Oh, a Myth is a Lie."
The guy is missing the point.

If Mr. Campbell cannot make him see this, then I would not even try.

I do have a problem with forcing others to respect all beliefs.

While I could respect an individual, as an individual, even if he/she believes the earth is flat, I don't think I could respect his/her faith.

This person is simply ignorant, and nowadays he/she has no excuse to be so.

I still wouldn't be insulting, I think you can see from my post I am expressing myself very carefully and respectfully, but that is just me.

I don't think I have the right to request others to respect his faith.

Simply put, they have every right to think him/her ridiculous and to behave in any manner they choose, even if it is insulting.

Ridicule does sometimes serve a positive purpose.

Is there any such thing as "a right not to be insulted?"

I don't think so.


This kinda stuff happens to me all the time in my family:

My Mother-in-law, for example, will have an outrageous faith-based opinion, which is additionally based on ignorance.

I will respectfully point out the facts as I know them, I will point out that the decision that she is about to make is based on a false belief, and that the results will not be as she wishes them to be, and that she should change her course of action.

If, after a few minutes, I cannot change her mind I will announce I have done my best, and that I will no longer speak of the matter.

And I'm not joking, this happened just last weekend.

If she clings to whatever course of action she was going for, this will not make me respect her more. I can assure you that.
In my view, ignorance and stubbornness are a deadly combination.

If I respectfully allowed her her beliefs, just because they're faith-based, then I would be failing myself.

In my example I am citing that my Mother-in-law believes that an asphalt driveway sealant is a good way to waterproof a flat concrete roof, because the guy that is fixing the roof for her told her it is. She claims this is done all the time, and that this is the way the roof was fixed four years ago, it lasted four years, didn't it?

That fits my definition.

When she disputes me, it is because she thinks it is a case of my word against his. All of this is faith based. It doesn't occur to her that she could read the packaging and trust what is described there.

I actually have no proof that asphalt driveway sealant is the wrong product. But, for example, my arguments include the fact that the warranty will be voided if the product is not used per the manufacturer specifications.

In our society, typically, Faith does not put us or our neighbors in immediate danger.
Someone living in the rain forest is not affected by whatever their belief of the shape of the earth might be.

But there definitely are exceptions: Just think of dangerous cults (such as Heaven's Gate,) or practical day-to-day beliefs, such as my example, not dangerous in this case, but costly.

When we get to the red areas in the dial, it is important to recognize it and point it out in a clear, loud voice.
We need to have the freedom to do this, even if it is uncomfortable for some.

I choose to show respectful behavior, even though I may think the person does not deserve it. This has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with the way I choose to live my own life.
I do not mind being challenged in my assumptions and beliefs, this is something I deal with pretty much on a day to day basis, but I know for a fact that some people do not want to be challenged or contradicted.
I think it is generally a good idea to live this way, but I cannot impose my own lifestyle on others. Everyone should be free to live their own way even if I do not agree with them.

As I've said, there are some issues which should not be left to faith, when there is proof that the faith is badly placed. For example: Selecting the proper products in fixing a roof or even choosing the correct vehicles in a trip around the world.

And there are some issues where faith works as it should, dealing with matters where other disciplines cannot possibly go. For example: Dealing with spirituality or the afterlife.

Recommended viewing: The Power of Myth - Joseph Campbell

Recommended website: Flat Earth Society